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Social media impacting Castlegar municipal elections

by Kyra Hoggan on 27 Oct 2011
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Social media impacting Castlegar municipal elections

 The internet and social media like Facebook are changing the face of municipal elections – fully nine of the 10 city council candidates boast Facebook pages devoted to their campaigns.

 
Incumbent Kevin Chernoff said he’s never seen an election like this one.
 
“It is fascinating to see how social media is shaping Municipal Elections campaigns across the Province - mine included,” Chernoff said. “I don’t think digital social media, as of yet, will totally replace some of the more traditional forms of campaigning, but it definitely is making an impact in shaping the way we interact with people.”
 
He said he sees enormous potential for local politicians to speak to exponentially larger audiences through the use of new media.
 
“Social media also allows us access to a much younger segment of the population, who are engaged, but not normally through traditional media,” he added. “They would be more inclined to post to a status comment than write a letter to an editor.”
 
Three-term incumbent  Deb McIntosh won her first election in 2002, and she said this is the first time she’s ever seen the internet used to campaign.
 
“(In previous elections), going online wasn’t even a consideration,” she said. “But I started using Facebook about two years ago, and found it a great way to connect with people I wouldn’t have, otherwise.
 
“It was a logical next step to apply that to my campaign.”
 
She said social media and the internet are only one piece of a larger campaign puzzle that includes door-knocking, forums, radio, print, etc., but she’s discovered some unexpected advantages to an electoral web.
 
“People speak way more freely on the internet than they do face-to-face,” she said. “And people show up there who would not show up to a council meeting.
 
“It’s an unthreatening environment to offer feedback, ask questions and engage.”
She said she intends, if elected, to take it another step as a councillor.
 
“I do think we, as a council, really have to look at social media beyond the election, and start using to get the word out about what we’re doing and why, and to receive community feedback.”
 
Incumbent Gord Turner is the sole council candidate to eschew a campaign Facebook page.
 
“I don’t need it,” he said. “I don’t think it will get me any votes – most of the people I interact with don’t use that media, or use it very infrequently.”
 
Interestingly, neither mayoral candidate has a Facebook page or other internet campaign tool, either.
 
Incumbent mayor Lawrence Chernoff said he doesn’t oppose the idea, it just doesn’t suit him.
 
“I don’t generally use Facebook, and I don’t Twitter – it’s just not my thing,” he said. “I do more face-to-face than anything, whether I’m campaigning or not.”
 
Mayoral challenger Gord Zaitsoff was unavailable for comment.

 

 

Comments

Simple as this

by MaryP on 05 Jan 2012 at about 20:50.
If you choose to say negative things on the wall of someone who has 682 friends do not be suprised when most of them defend her. If it was private then message her. I think this person got exactly what she was looking for except not in her favour. Please appreciate the sheer hard work that Deb puts in during the Christmas season providing food and gifts for those who would probably not get anything. Everyone has their breaking point and at that moment I think Deb's words were more than appropriate. Grow up people - Deb you will always have my vote.

wow

by Un_Xposed on 06 Jan 2012 at about 10:24.
First off, I'm pretty sure you did not read every post regarding this situation. Second, She does not provide gifts and christmas, the community does. Lastly If someone does not have the knowledge of facebook how do you expect one to know to send a private message. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say I do appreciate the time EVERY volunteer takes to help it's not just one person doing all of this. If you think bullying a physically and mentally disabled woman is appropriate that's your prerogative.

Wah wah wah

by MaryP on 06 Jan 2012 at about 11:07.
How on earth is one supposed to know the physical status of a person you do not know on fb - all you know is that they have attacked a person that does more for this community than any other person I know. Have you any idea what it takes to co-ordinate a massive operation like the Christmas Hampers? The community may provide the $$ to make it so but who do you think arranges the purchasing etc. Santa Claus. Deb works all year for this community - not just at Christmas and not just as a City Councillor, she co-rdinates the drop in centre, the food bank and takes care of many homeless people. That is why we rushed to her defense and to those of you who state that you will not vote for her next time - you will get what you deserve.

The fact that people are

by ToThePoint on 06 Jan 2012 at about 12:29.
The fact that people are still attempting to justify bullying is disturbing. How can you try to say that a group bashing one person is okay? I really don't care how special you think the person is doing the bullying, it is still bullying, it is still wrong. We will get ours? Um alright, Im pretty sure there are a lot of people who would be capable to co-ordinate community events who would not verbally abuse members of the public. Its not that hard to not bully people. Its something each of us have learnt by grade 4. Condoning bullying is not something that makes you a good person, standing up for your friend or not, and karma doesn't care where you are on the social ladder. The ridiculous thing is that I get that she is a human, and she makes mistakes, yet for some reason she has an impossible time admitting she was wrong. Perhaps because her "friends" continue to encourage her behaviour. Good characters can admit their mistakes and move on. Those who are trying to stand up for this bullying may think that they are doing her a favour but in the long run, it is only going to encourage more negativity in our community. I think that it is important for our politicians to accept criticism and change to be more positive role models in our community, because no matter what we all disagree on, Im sure each of us can agree that we would like to live in a more positive community. It is clear in this case however that is not going to happen, and Im getting tired of arguing against individuals who are too stubborn, and who care more about their personal feelings then the community, so I am going to stop wasting my time. Good luck to all of you who still think that bullying is okay, I hope for future generations that you don't preach what you practice.

not saying she is not appreciated

by Un_Xposed on 06 Jan 2012 at about 11:31.
Attacked? or simply stated she felt mistreated? In my opinion the only one "attacked" was the one that was voicing her feelings. Either way, the way it was dealt with was ridiculous. Purchasing is something I love to do. I am not saying she does not work hard, but everyone seems to forget to thank the other people that help make it happen as well. Will get what you deserve? If these are the types of friends she has then honestly you just further my point. Personally it should not matter her physical status, whether or not she is mentally and physically disabled, she is still a person being verbally attacked by a group of people.

Setting the record straight

by MaryP on 06 Jan 2012 at about 14:22.
I actually have a copy of the original thread from fb and I would like to say that this person was NEVER attacked personally, there were references to her being ungrateful but generally the comment thread was about Deb and thanking her for her contribution to the people of Castlegar so to say that the person was being verbally attacked is totally untrue. If you post a comment on fb as far as I am concerned you are inviting discussion and thats what happened. At no time could it ever be considered cyber bullying.

curiousity

by Un_Xposed on 10 Jan 2012 at about 11:22.
If you did infact read all of the posts regarding this subject you would have read that I also have the ORIGINAL post before things were deleted. For what ever matter you are still defending this behaviour is appauling. I am done with this subject I haven't seen one smart remark or rebuddle on it. I have said everything I needed to and will not respond to any more. If you read everything in all of these posts I'm sure you will find my reply. If it wasn't bullying then why was the thread deleted to begin with???

Castlegar Mean Girls?

by ToThePoint on 19 Dec 2011 at about 17:33.
Just because you were elected does not mean that you should now disregard how the public see's you, especially considering Facebook. It has come to my attention that a woman was literally verbally abused on one of the newly elected members' Facebook page. The politician, "whose name I will not mention to preserve at least a small bit of integrity" had used some seriously derogatory statements, which honestly made my jaw drop. This was extremely discomforting to me knowing that someone who is supposed to represent our community is not only speaking like this but is also publicly insulting a member of the community. This woman had simply stated that she had felt inadequately treated in a volunteering event, (which might I remind you everyone in our community is entitled to participate in such events). Her opinion was even stated in a polite way, and multiple members of the community including the political member began to verbally abuse and cyber bully this woman based on her opinion. It honestly was astonishing to see all of these people who are looked at as professional respected members of our community bullying, swearing at, and criticizing a member of our community for their opinion. As much as they try to justify these actions by saying "they say whats on their mind no matter what", here is the thing: If you take a job representing the community, you must realize that your image is a large part of it. I certainly do not want a team of mean girls who bully and cannot express their opinions without cursing like a bunch of teenagers representing me, or my family. Not to mention that entire persona around the "I say what I feel and I don't care what anyone thinks because Im some kind of political bad ass" is so far beyond immature. It doesn't make you cool, or respected, it makes you look like a teenage girl who not only cant take criticism, but does not know how to respond to it like an adult. I hope for this politicians sake and all of those involved in the cyber bullying, that each of you work a bit on growing up.

Mean

by Deb McIntosh on 04 Jan 2012 at about 23:18.
So my langauge offended you, I am sorry. I do not think I am a bad ass. I am a volunteer at the food bank who has had enough of this person making accusations that are untrue. No one asked what really happened, it is assumed that this person was treated unjust, not true. The person who voiced her opinion and I go back a long way. As a matter of fact a couple days before we were eating and talking at the same table, friendly and happy ad then once again BAM she throws something out there. Anyway, sorry that it got carried away. My feelings however remain the same about the situation.

Mystery

by Un_Xposed on 04 Jan 2012 at about 23:54.
You are entitled to your feelings. You have stated plenty of times how she was not treated unfairly, but the question remains who's the one lying? What are the motives? Seems to me you are the only one with a motive most likely to keep some integrity. Something that still troubles me is the fact you are not JUST a volunteer at the food bank, you are also a voice that is representing this community. You are viewed and looked up to by the Castlegar citizens. When you are put into that kind of position it holds certain obligations to remain on a professional level while being viewed by the public. I am certain that if it were any other case with any other person the law would be involved. You should be thanking her for not going as far with this as many of us would have.

And yet ...

by Kyra Hoggan on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:03.

 you continue to withdraw your name in this debate, which smacks of cowardice to everyone I know, myself included.

You attack and name names ...while withholding your own.

And when I ask for evidence of your vile allegations ...the silence is deafening.

"I don't think feelings should be hurt", you say.

No, it would never hurt anyone to be accused of abusing a position of public trust, or of misusing public resources (which is theft, by the way).

Provide proof, or leave my site.

I will be Witness Number 1, if and when you are sued for defamation.

Provide proof of these allegations (as you have claimed you can), or be gone. 

The law of the land applies to you, too. (and BTW, withholding your name protects you not at all - you can be tracked through your IP address).

My name is, as always,

Kyra Hoggan

Editor

Misread

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 01:00.
You asked me to provide proof of my alligations, perhaps you are misreading my agenda. I am NOT accusing her of misusing public resources or accusing her of abusing her position as a board member. I am just commenting on the verbal assault, which took place on her page and infact I tried to provide proof but I'm guessing you as the editor deleted that comment.

policy

by Kyra Hoggan on 05 Jan 2012 at about 01:34.

 I delete any thread which includes profanity ... I can tell the difference between a public venue like The Source, and private avenues like Facebook. Post swears on my site, I'll delete them. You're not special, that's practical policy that was in place long before you got here. Your inability to discern the difference says a great deal about you ...and nothing about The Source.

As for the rest:

When someone accuses another of comitting a crime, on Facebook or anywhere else, the accused has a right to respond in kind ...on Facebook or anywhere else.

Do I see accusations of criminal misdoings as less than swear words? No, I do not.

I think your allegiance is wrong-minded, and part of a much larger campaign to which you haven't the courage to admit. I think you have an agenda, to which you're too much the coward to confess. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's what I think. I've seen you and yours, and the work you do, and how you do it.

I also think you're a coward for hiding your name. I think that, and it's my right. On Facebook, on my site, in the world.

I find your hate-mongering horrific, and I wish you'd do the teeny-tiny bit of legwork that would tell you she's NOT a "board member", but a COUNCIL member ...two wildly different things.

My perception is that you are ignorant and unfair and a hate-mongerer, and I wish to communicate with you no further.

My name is Kyra Hoggan.

Until you have the courage to share yours, expect no further response from me.

 

I know the language was too

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 08:59.
I know the language was too offensive for this site. The accused does have the right to respond but the fact remains it could have been done in a more professional manner. If you condone cyber bullying that is fine, not saying you do, but my perception of this latest comment in my opinion makes it seem that way. Either way you are entitled. Whether it's in "real life" or on facebook when a lot of people sit aound and talk poorly about an individual to the point they do not feel safe, I believe in my opinion that is classified as bullying. Furthermore when a lot of people sit there and call names I believe in my opinion that is a type of slander. I am not at all a "hate mongerer". I was taught from an early age to stand up for what I believe in, which is simply what I intended to do. A council member is still a leader of this community. I have no need to have any kind of agenda different from what I have already stated. It's not okay for kids to bully, why should this be any different? Anyways it is my right not to say my name, and that will not change. You haven't seen me or mine or the work I do, that's what's great about being annonymous.

I re-read everything I have

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:18.
I re-read everything I have posted and not once have I stated that she had infact misused anything or accused her of abusing her position. Maybe you need to tell me which comment I did just that. As for her name if you look at the times of the comments you will realize she had already stated her name well before hand.

Can you really be this selfish?

by Kyra Hoggan on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:19.

 You are defending someone who made those claims, and saying that the response to such vile, horrific accusations was unreasonable ...because it contained curse words.

Oh my God. Get a grip.

You say you don't want anyone to be hurt, but could care less how badly UNFOUNDED accusations of ILLEGAL activity may have hurt the person whom you so gleefully malign today. But swear words are where you draw your line? SERIOUSLY?

I will never again respond to any comment you make, as you are so clearly looking to do harm that I have no truck with you or yours.

I feel sad for you, that you would behave in such a manner, and I will be the first in line to testify, should the people involved sue you.

I have the courage to sign my name.

It's Kyra Hoggan.

Editor.

Swear words?

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:34.
This has nothing to do with the language that was spoken. It's just the fact that there were no consequences for the actions and no remorse seen. Therefor seems very unjust. I don't think that I have stated anything that was not stated infact on her own facebook page. The individual did infact apologize and further explain that she was under alot of stress. I did not bring her name into this and was not going to, if she felt it was necessary so be it. I like her as a person I just don't agree with how things were not only dealt with but settled. If I said or did something wrong I am not at all aware of it, I had no idea stating my opinion is a crime. If there were consequences regarding this subject, I was not aware, so I do apologize if that is the case.

WHAT?????

by Kyra Hoggan on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:39.

 "... there were no consequences for the actions and no remorse seen" 

You said yourself, that you cannot prove any such actions took place.

Stating your opinon is not a crime.

Accusing someone of a crime without foundation or proof IS a crime - it's called defamation.

The law is very clear in this regard ... perhaps you should attend battles of the wits better-armed.

I have the integrity to sign my name.

It's Kyra Hoggan

Editor

Misinterpretation?

by ToThePoint on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:48.
by "no consequences for the actions and no remorse seen" I believe Un_Xposed was referring to the verbal attack on the woman on Facebook. Not the alleged mistreatment that the woman was speaking about. Therefore it is not defamation of character. Defemation occurs when the statements are untrue. There is plenty of proof that Deb did verbally attack this woman on Facebook therefore what Un_Xposed said was not an untrue statement. You are right the law is very clear in this regard, perhaps you should read the comments better before throwing around legal threats?

Wow - anything to be right, huh?

by Kyra Hoggan on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:55.

 I read them just fine, and you can interpret them as you choose...as shall I, and as would the courts.

The only immediately, proveably defamatory act was perhaps taken by the woman who chose to accuse Deb, on Facebook, of a criminal act, with neither proof nor foundation so far offered.

If you choose to make that your camp, have at, and God help you.

I'm done with this ridiculous conversation.

I'd sign my name ...but I think you already know it.

I wonder if you'll ever have the decency to share yours before publicly attacking someone else.

I doubt it.

PS - nope, can't do it. I sign what I write.

Kyra Hoggan

Editor

Some details please

by ssanders (not verified) on 23 Dec 2011 at about 18:34.
ToThePoint: Could you explain your point? I realize you are trying to remain tactful, but could you post a link or some other actual explanation? If the person you are accusing has made public statements, by all means you should pass them on. All I see is vague accusations and innuendo, I honestly don't know what you are describing.

info

by Un_Xposed on 04 Jan 2012 at about 18:11.
I can send you the thread via email. The language that Deb used is highly offensive for this site. I tried to post it but wasn't successful.

Thread

by Deb McIntosh on 04 Jan 2012 at about 20:25.
What I said was Go F yourself. Lets get the facts straight. If in fact you want the facts.

you ungreatful B***h. Thank

by Un_Xposed on 04 Jan 2012 at about 22:05.
you ungreatful B***h. Thank you for clarifying. The posts, including your status, that followed were revolting.

So we don't get this

by Un_Xposed on 04 Jan 2012 at about 23:01.
So we don't get this confused, "you ungreatful b***h" was a phraze that was part of the status, not a statement or my opinion of Deb.

thread

by Deb McIntosh on 04 Jan 2012 at about 23:10.
Yes I did say that and I stand by it.

So you stand by your decision

by ToThePoint on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:19.
So you stand by your decision to verbally assault someone, justifying it as "you are who you are"? The reason I continue to use the term immature, is that an adult takes criticism in a mature way, you could have responded either with a personal message if you felt that this was a personal matter, or by saying that you disagreed with her opinion on her treatment. Never was there a reason to swear at her, and then instigate your friends calling her names all over your Facebook wall for three days. I would also like to remind you that you are the one who brought your name into the matter. Nobody had said your name, you were being referred to as the politician, and you personally chose to let the public know it was you. Some things cannot be proven in this situation like if you did or did not treat this woman unfairly when it came to the hampers, but what can be proven is that you verbally assaulted, and participated in defamation of character yourself to the woman involved. So I urge you to consider this before you start pointing fingers. I don't know why you did what you did, I don't know what would make you think this was okay. Perhaps you just enjoy the attention of having a group to back up your time formed grudge against this woman, but no matter what you say, no matter how much you try to make it seem like it wasn't that bad, and she deserved it, what you did was ethically wrong. I hope in the future, being a member of our council, you choose to respond to criticism and public opinion in a more professional, mature manner.

Un_Xposed: Hi, Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle

by Kyra Hoggan on 04 Jan 2012 at about 22:19.

 And who's calling names and being nasty, now?

 You made your point, now you're just being ugly ... and without ever having the courage or integrity to use your real name.

You should be so very proud.

I sign my name. It's ..

Kyra Hoggan, 

Editor

 

Avoid bias opinion

by ToThePoint on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:21.
Anonymity is a great thing when you are trying to avoid bias in public opinion. Wouldn't want anyone agreeing with our opinions because of where we stand on the social ladder, although that seems to be a common theme among members of the community.

That's what Deb had in her

by Un_Xposed on 04 Jan 2012 at about 22:58.
That's what Deb had in her status along with go f yourself. I'm more mature than to stoop to that level.

oh, please

by Kyra Hoggan on 04 Jan 2012 at about 23:04.

 Yes, if you don't use curse words, then it's okay to be horrifically mean, and make accusations of malfeasance.

That's terrific.

Sign your name to your work.

Like this:

Kyra Hoggan

Editor

mean?

by Un_Xposed on 04 Jan 2012 at about 23:35.
I don't believe I was being mean at all. As a community member I feel I have the right to speak my opinion in a suitable fashion. I don't believe feelings should be hurt because I have just stated the obvious. The accusations I have brought to light, I also have proof to back them up, therefor they are considered facts.

Okay - I'm game

by Kyra Hoggan on 04 Jan 2012 at about 23:46.

 Then provide me with some evidence or proof that the person you were so willing to name (while remaining nameless yourself), ever actually misused public resources or showed favouritism.

If not, you're flirting dangerously close to a defamation suit.

Prove what you say, or let serious people speak.

So far, I've seen no proof, just vile accusations and a heinous disregard for a person's right to speak on their own behalf.

Once again, my name is:

Kyra Hoggan

Editor

Not sure how that would happen.

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 00:01.
I have stated only that of which was bullying and slander, and I do have proof. I wouldn't have said her name period if she had not already stated it herself. Disregard for a person's right to speak? I don't think that I have disregarded one thing she has said. I just do not agree. I am not going to give a name for fear I will be casted out like the individual I am speaking on behalf of. I have simply stated that a person in the position she is in should not have engaged or instigated such behaviour end of story.

so clarification

by Jenn on 05 Jan 2012 at about 09:19.
your issue is with the choice of words that were used by the politician or the comments that followed? Can the politician be held responsible for other people stating their opinion?

When it was instigated by the

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 09:35.
When it was instigated by the politician and then ignored, I believe that to be the same thing as doing it themselves. The politician had the choice to end it but instead let it get out of hand, even after the one that accused had apologized. In my opinion the politician should be held responsible. The choice of words were offensive..

grey area

by Jenn on 05 Jan 2012 at about 10:23.
I feel that it is harder to control the actions of your "FB Friends" on FB. Now should she have deleted the status earlier, perhaps, however again I don't see how the politicians "fb friends" commenting on the status or even her wall a responsibility of the politician. As mentioned earlier people tend to hide behind the "anonymity" of their computer screen and say things that they would never say if they came face to face with a person. You cannot possibly expect one person to control a group of people's actions. As for if this is a case of "bullying" I can see how yes it can be perceived that way, however I do feel that is where it boils down to is someone's personal fb page considered a public place or private. If I can choose who comes in and who doesn't by adding people or removing, and if I can completely block people from entering my page or finding me, does this not make the page private? Is this not the same as someone then coming into my home and making the accusations to me in front of my friends that I invited in? If the politician had said what she said in the privacy of her own home would this be the same result? Would this too be considered bullying? As for the choice of language used, was it a little bit curse, yes that I also agree with, and I do believe that the politician after re-thinking it did also find the language to be a bit curse, hence the secondary one apologizing for her choice of words. Have you not spewed off a curse word or two when you have been hurt? Now having said all that, even though I feel my personal fb page is just that my personal fb page, a reminder might be to take out of all this never say anything online that you won't say to a persons face.

well....

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 11:23.
When someone comments on someone's status their friends see that status, as do people that are not friends with that person do. Therefor it is public. I have seen many statuses of people who I am not friends with just from my friends commenting. Yes you can control who says what by deleting inappropriate comments that have to do with bullying and slander remarks. If you have read my comments on here then you would realize I have said that everyone has said things that they shouldn't have in the heat of the moment. It still doesn't excuse these actions.

I just wanted to say one last

by Un_Xposed on 05 Jan 2012 at about 13:31.
I just wanted to say one last thing before I rest my case. If the victim of this bullying incident commited suicide, god forbid,(which is not an uncommon outcome of a bullying incident) Maybe this situation would be taken a little more seriously. It's sad to know that just because of someones level of self-esteem the consequences differ.

I'd like to say one last thing, too ...

by Kyra Hoggan on 05 Jan 2012 at about 14:17.

... which is that I don't know why the comments are getting progressively skinnier and dificult to read, but I've asked our tech guy to have a look and try to fix it.

I apologize - it's deadly annoying.

Kyra Hoggan

Editor

and pretty soon won't exist

by Carol on 05 Jan 2012 at about 19:27.
and pretty soon won't exist if it keeps getting smaller.

What happened was that a

by ToThePoint on 30 Dec 2011 at about 14:54.
What happened was that a woman who had been volunteering with the Christmas hampers had felt like she was treated unfairly at the volunteering event by a member of the Castlegar council. She voiced her opinion to the council member in a polite way via Facebook. The politician responded to this by calling the volunteer names, and generally responding to the opinion with a slur of derogatory statements and curse words publicly on her Facebook wall. Members of the public began to verbally abuse the volunteer on this politicians Facebook page as well, with the politician egging them on and instigating further verbal abuse. She stated that she "tells it how it is" which was supposed to be some kind of excuse for the cyber bullying that her and other members of the community were participating in. Due to what I assume was fear that people would not respond well to her publicly verbally abusing a member of the public, and a feeling of stupidity for doing something so immature in the first place, the politician has since removed the comments from her Facebook, so there is no link. My comment is meant for future politicians, current politicians, as well to all those involved in the cyber bullying. The way you are seen publicly is vital when you are representing your community, what had happened in this situation was disgusting and unprofessional. All of those involved, or considering this behaviour seriously need to grow up.

Not black and white

by Kyra Hoggan on 30 Dec 2011 at about 18:44.

 I take your point, ToThePoint, and have, since your original post, reconsidered my own actions and reactions as a result.

Two issues remain: My understanding was that the complainant was NOT a volunteer, but rather a recipient of a hamper. That changes things for most of us - when receiving something for which you are not entitled, to complain is somewhat repugnant, to most of us. So I think it's important we be honest and clarify here. Was she a volunteer, or a hamper recipient?

Second: Is Facebook a public venue? The fact that you can choose to accept some and reject others says to me it's a personal venue. Public, to me, means open to all.

We all need avenues in which it's safe to be angry and blow off a little. I think Facebook has merit as one such avenue.

Further, I have always contended that if someone doesn't like the opinions I express on Facebook, they are more than welcome to "unfriend" me. The Source is a different matter, as it IS a public venue, and the way I express myself in same does, I think, reflect the difference.

 I also think that, when you post an ugly accusation (and let's not mince words, here, it WAS an ugly accusation of a lack of impartiality and misuse of public resources) on your Facebook page, to then cry "bullying" when the accused responds in kind is more than a little naive and self-serving. Furthermore, when said accused then removes the post out of respect, to use having done so in further attacks against them is unconscionable.

You DID choose a public venue, as opposed to Facebook, in which to have this conversation. I think you should reconsider some of your own methods.

Having said all that, I do think that you're right in your contention that there are better, more adult ways of making a point, and I know I'll endeavour to employ them more in future. I know you weren't speaking of me, specifically, in your comments, but I think it's important you know you were heard. Yes, I CAN be mean. I try not to indulge in knee-jerk angry reactions - and so often, fail.

It's a point well-taken ... I just think it's nowhere near as black-and-white as you have indicated.

Regards,

Kyra Hoggan 

Still Not Okay

by ToThePoint on 03 Jan 2012 at about 21:37.
Well Kyra, although I appreciate your reconsideration of your personal actions in this situation, I think that you may have misinterpreted a few of the facts. The first fact being that this woman volunteered with the hampers as well as received one. From my understanding the bullying that this woman was dealt went back farther then just the hampers. It had stemmed from a personal altercation the politician and the volunteer had over a case of supposed child abuse that the volunteer reported to the police; the politician was friends with the family that was reported. This personal problem between the two had been brought to light by this hamper dilemma. Let me be perfectly clear, I saw the post, and to me there was nothing ugly about it. She had simply stated that she felt she had been given less in her hamper which she knew because she had volunteered and saw what went into each hamper. She felt this to be a personal attack from the politician, and how do any of us know that it wasn't? The food hampers given from the food bank is a public resource for those who need it, regardless if the local politicians like them or not, so yes she was entitled to the hamper. As for Facebook being a personal venue, I assure you, it is not as personal as you think. When you apply for a new job, bosses are very likely to check your Facebook, so is anyone else who wants to know what your really like. People get fired everyday over what they put on their "personal pages", and it is a well known fact that Facebook is used basically to see what people are up to, so when a politician makes the decision to represent our community and to make a Facebook account, they need to take into consideration that people will see it. People will make judgements based on what they see, so it is probably best not to verbally attack a member of the public on it for stating their feelings of mistreatment. I personally chose a public venue to post my opinion because I felt that the public deserves to be aware of who we have voted for. I also felt that this should be an example to the politician, and all other politicians to watch what they put on their Facebook pages even after they have been elected. Finally I put this on a public venue because I noticed that the only people who had previously stated an opinion on the matter were friends of this politician, hence making the opinions bias and hateful toward the volunteer. This way all members of the public could have an opinion, the politician would not be encouraged and supported in her bullying, and would realize that what she did was not okay, and by all of the likes on my first post, it appears that the public agrees with me. In conclusion, you are right Kyra it is not so black and white, but even when you look at the grey areas, what this politician did was unprofessional and immature, there are no excuses for cyber bullying.

From the editor: We can only agree to disagree

by Kyra Hoggan on 04 Jan 2012 at about 01:18.

 ToThePoint:

I think accusations of favouritism and misuse of public funding are ugly, serious, and should be addressed in a far more serious manner than FB posts. That you don't take them so seriously speaks to your value system, not mine.

It's something upon which we'll clearly never agree.

I think it's cowardly to make said accusations on FB, if they're true - stand up or don't, these mid-way measures make me nuts. There are a thousand legitimate venues in which to make such accusations - and FB doesn't come close to being one of them. You know that, no matter what disingenuous argument you choose to employ. I can already tell you're smarter than that.

If her allegations are true, she had a responsibility to turn to higher authorities than FB - and she deserved the response she got when she chose her venue. Like attracts like, it's a reality of the universe.

If her allegations are not true, then she got away with very little punishment, if you ask me.

I note that it's you, not her, posting on a genuinely public venue ... and that makes me question both her integrity and her honesty.

That being said, I don't question yours.

I think you're trying to do what's right, and you're taking on intimidating people to do so, and I respect and admire that.

I think you're wasting energy, though, that could be better spent teaching your friend how to offer a genuine grievance, instead of starting a bitch-slapping match on Facebook.

We have a system. If she chooses not avail herself of it, or pretend she's better than it, then she loses both my sympathy and my interest. 

Bullies beget bullies. A post on FB is not designed to solve problems, it's designed to induce hatred. Your friend made a choice. She didn't seek a solution, she merely attacked...in what YOU say is a public venue.

Your friend should be ashamed for getting that particular ball rolling. She needs to stand up ... or sit down and shut up. Hitting below the belt and then attacking the other guy for responding in kind? 

Work within the system, or shut up when others follow your lead.

Like you said yourself - it's what the grown-ups do.

Respectfully,

Kyra Hoggan

Editor

Agree to disagree? Absolutely.

by ToThePoint on 04 Jan 2012 at about 10:33.
Kyra, I cant help but think that you are putting titles to things that you don't know about. First of all, this woman is not my friend, I noticed what was happening on this politicians page, and was shocked therefore I felt the need to say something. However, you and the politician appear to be friends, which is obvious to see based on your personal comments on the Facebook thread. Which is why I understand what you are doing, standing up for your friend (the politician), even though she was wrong in the situation. So I believe that you are being a good friend, which is something I respect, but I think that if you step back from personal opinions of both people involved you will realize the situation has no excuses. Yes favouritism and misuse of public funding do need to be taken seriously, and dealt with professionally, which is exactly what this politician didn't do. Regardless of how this woman posted her opinion, it is part of the politicians job to take public opinion seriously and in a professional "grown-up" way. My personal lessons in this case are best served for those who were ganging up on and cyber bullying someone as it is something I learnt a lot about in elementary school. It is wrong, no matter which way you choose to look at it, bullying is morally, and in this politicians case, ethically wrong. By stating her opinion on Facebook she had meant to question the mistreatment right from the source at which she felt it had came from. This is a logical thing to do. She was replied to by being called an ungrateful b****, a rat, and so on by the politician and community members. Was there no better way to respond to her opinion than to gang up on her, and call her names? If you call twenty people bashing one person for stating an opinion a bitch slapping match, then so be it, that speaks to your definition of things, not mine. So no, I don't think that the woman who was bullied and treated as a scape goat for the politician and her friends should feel ashamed of herself. I think that every individual that felt the need to swear at, criticize, and bully this woman publicly on the page of a local council member should feel ashamed for acting like a clique of teenage girls. So like you say Kyra, perhaps we should just agree to disagree, because to me, there is no justification for bullying.

To the point

by Deb McIntosh on 04 Jan 2012 at about 14:09.
I am Deb McIntosh the "politician". Sure wrong venue, absolutely. I should of taken the high road, I didn't. Believe me when I say, there is way more to this then meets the eye. She was ungrateful, she was not treated differently then anyone else. It was not intended to be a bullying thread, simply my venue of choice was poor. I am who I am, elected or not.

Deb, still after all of this

by ToThePoint on 04 Jan 2012 at about 17:51.
Deb, still after all of this you are making accusations towards her opinion. "She was ungrateful"? You are not helping your cause. She told you she felt she had not been treated fairly, whether or not you feel that was the case, the way you responded to her was severely immature. How could you not have known that your hateful response would instigate bullying from your Facebook friends? By replying to her feelings of mistreatment by saying "f*** you, you ungrateful b****" etc.. you basically let every one of your friends on your Facebook see that it is okay to swear at this woman, and call her names. As a representative of our community you should be setting positive examples for the citizens. I realize that you are who you are, but you cannot tell me that this is something that would have been on your Facebook page if you were still looking for votes. What bothers me is that you still cannot just admit that you were wrong. What you did was unacceptable, regardless of the venue. Why should I believe anything you have to say? You have proven yourself to be an irresponsible member of our board, and you will not receive my vote in the future. Perhaps it is best to either let your true colours remain unseen, or to show them prior to the election.

regardless

by Un_Xposed on 04 Jan 2012 at about 17:50.
This is a classic case of taking ones word over the other, lets face it Deb you win, after all you are a board member. You are still sitting here trying to justify bullying and what happened, but in reality there is no justification for these actions. Slander is also illegal. It's pretty bad that a member of our community feels unsafe to go and get the help that every citiszen in her position is ENTITLED to get. After the 50th remark a person would think you would have took the thread down and in your words "took the high road". You left it going for days. You may not have intended for any of that to happen but your right it did and you didn't do anything. In not only my opinion but others you not only enticed bullying but participated in it as well. In my opinion your position as a board member is premature as you have a lot of growing up and maturing to do. I regret giving you my vote immensely.

Agreed. We disagree.

by Kyra Hoggan on 04 Jan 2012 at about 13:26.

While I don't agree with your stance on this one situation or your intepretation of the role of Facebook, I've really enjoyed reading your comments, and I admire your willingness to stand up for your beliefs.

No, I wasn't defending a buddy - THAT's the kind of thing I reserve for Facebook. I was expressing my take on a situation I don't see as black-and-white.

That being said, I suspect, given what you've said so far and how you've said it, that we'd agree on far more than we'd disagree.

Thank you for your comments!

Regards,

Kyra Hoggan

Editor